»Juan Borgia (Stanley Weber)

I actually don't know why they included that last bit that Juan had a thing for Lucrezia - is that supposed to be some pity factor in his behavior? I

What I liked about this Juan is that he wasn't the usual brainless idiot when it came to strategy -at least in the first episodes. The point with him was, I think, that he was both unexperience and and rush with his decisions, like he had the potential to actuallya anchieve something but he constantly ended up ruining it for himself.

I think he was mostly jealous of the bond Cesare and Lucrezia shared (although in the first season there were only so many scenes with them, so it didn't come through as straightfowardly as it did in the other series). Also, he was a man of his time, not unlike Cesare himself: Lucrezia had helped his wife escape and he could not be outsmarted by a woman (much like Cesare did not bear to be outsmarted by Caterina Sforza). The difference being, Juan saw Lucrezia in no special light, I think, while Cesare loves her in a mix of fraternal and romatic way, so he could never hurt her, not really.

I agree, indeed he was not an idiot, and if he was a little less self-involved and a little more careful maybe he could have been what his dad and his family wanted him to be.

The problem with Juan was that he felt underestimated in the attempt to live up to the expectation his father had for him and constantly facing the fact that they were too high and there were people who, he felt, ended up beating him every time.

That was not an easy task being Rodrigo's son.

You know, scratch what I wrote in the opening post - i don't despise Juan that much anymore. On reflection, he is just as a victim of the ambitions that are brewing in the family, with everyone of them and a victim to his father impossibly high expectations over him.
That don't cross however how he treated all the women on the show and how he treated his family, but I came to understand him a little better. Thanks for the insight, Lu!

XD I'm no expert, sweety, nor a keen judge of human character, but that's just how I see it: I can be wrong.

think it all goes back to being a Spaniard in a foreign place and being humiliated as someone who does not belong. He's kind of a "nouveau riche" that hates to be disrespected and reacts violently when he feels it happens.
Of course, the weaker the "opposer", the greater the damages he provokes.

And Standly did say he wanted to find something redeemable in Juan, bu he also feels Juan doesn't quite know what is right and what is wrong.

What I liked about this Juan is that he wasn't the usual brainless idiot when it came to strategy -at least in the first episodes.

The point with him was, I think, that he was both unexperience and and rush with his decisions, like he had the potential to actuallya anchieve something but he constantly ended up ruining it for himself.

The way he behaved with Maria (don't uderstand that one either and the thing with the twins, too. XD) was not uncommon but I think the trigger was that she actually outsmarted him as well when it came to management.
The problem with Juan was that he felt underestimated in the attempt to live up to the expectation his father had for him and constantly facing the fact that they were too high

But they were indeed those expectations too high, not just for Juan, for anyone. That was not an easy task being Rodrigo's son.

Definitely not. It was almost impossible to live up to Rodrigo's expectations. It was Rodrigo that set Juan against Cesare and viceversa, even if not on purpose. He could go around shouting from the hills family must stick together all he wished to. And if Juan love anyone that was his father or at least the degree of love he used to get from him, and the rivalry with Cesare sprang from the fear of losing that love if Cesare ended up being more useful to Rodrigo than Juan was.

You need to remember that Maria Enriquez, a woman as she was, was the one to actually get the work done in Juan's holdings in Spain: perhaps he felt inferior to her as well, but he could direct that frustration phisically to her in that case.

As for Lucrezia, I remember her to be shocked about Juan's mistreatment of his wife, and that was perhaps what cooled their relationship

Whatever fondness he had towards her, whatever kind, must have got mixed with hatred for once again being overpowered

and jealousy for Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship.

You know, scratch what I wrote in the opening post - i don't despise Juan that much anymore. Thanks for the insight, Lu! It good to have a different perspective. I don't like to be too harsh on characters, they are usually not that black and white anyway.

David Oakes' Juan was most funny and tender, at the beginning. Instead this Juan was not. In contrast, he was more capable than the other and less - I'm so sorry to say it... - wimp. Tom Fontana had better calibrated strength and abilities of Rodrigo's children, so there was - after all - a substantial equality between Cesare and Juan. I liked very much this choice. Even Cesare's supremacy was then more natural over time. And 'cause Juan wan't a total idiot it's possible understand why, affection aside, Rodrigo hold him in high regard.

Yes, but Cesare had more stuff to succeed.

Do you think? It's possible! It's an intriguing idea...

Yes, I think. Certainly should not have been pleasant for him to see her sister interfered in his private affairs.

Maybe he was jealous. But I do not think 'cause Lucrezia was special to him - in a particular way - rather 'cause he was again passing by Cesare.