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Miss.ChatterBox
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Edited by Julia_Katina - 10/6/2013, 12:49
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butterfly-fly .
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Why haven't we camped in this thread yet, guys?!
Rodrigo is an interesting character:) I have a burning question - based on S1 (since I'm a looser who is still waiting for S2 translation) - Rodrigo did grieve Juan with..passion let's say, and he told Cezare that Juan was the light of his eyes - do you think he loved Juan more than his other kids?. -
Miss.ChatterBox .
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I think he has a soft spot for Juan because he's the one most like himself (I mean in the non political way). Juan let him see a version of himself -the good older brother, the one who cuddles Lucrezia etc.
Every time Juan slips and Rodrigo sees his true nature (for instance when he makes fun of Cesare for being raped) it's like Rodrigo doesn't allow himself to believe Juan does what he does on purpose or with the aim to hurt others.
In a way, I think he sees Juan more "innocent" than Cesare is. With a simpler outlook on life. Juan is no competition to his political genius, does what he is told. He's less difficult than Cesare in a way.
Yeah, Rodrigo is a spectacular character, and I ship him and Giulia to death. No comparison with Giulia\Rodrigo from the other series. The passion between these two... you can cut it with a knife while TB!Rod and Giulia were just meh.. -
Julia_Katina .
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Really!
CITAZIONEdo you think he loved Juan more than his other kids?
Rodrigo loves all his children. But I think he loves more Juan and Pedro Luis, while Goffredo is less loved; I would say this on the basis of a dialogue, at the beginning of the first season, had with Vannozza and because he takes care of the youngest child much less of other. He keeps even more into consideration Lucrezia, a female.CITAZIONEI think he has a soft spot for Juan because he's the one most like himself (I mean in the non political way). Juan let him see a version of himself -the good older brother, the one who cuddles Lucrezia etc.
Every time Juan slips and Rodrigo sees his true nature (for instance when he makes fun of Cesare for being raped) it's like Rodrigo doesn't allow himself to believe Juan does what he does on purpose or with the aim to hurt others.
In a way, I think he sees Juan more "innocent" than Cesare is.
This is interesting, I never thought such a thing...CITAZIONEWith a simpler outlook on life. Juan is no competition to his political genius, does what he is told. He's less difficult than Cesare in a way.
This, however, is quite obvious. And I agree.CITAZIONEThe passion between these two... you can cut it with a knife while TB!Rod and Giulia were just meh.
X°°°D. -
butterfly-fly .
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Thank you, ladies! So it's basically Juan was easier to manipulate than Cezare for Rodrigo. and he only started to pay attention to Lucrezia when she rebelled in her marriage, also not an easy target to manipulate.
I liked when Lucrezia said in that scene when Goffredo was sent away: "How can he send him away. He is only a boy. Are we just furniture to him?". I do think that this Rodrigo is not a very..loving father so to speak. his kids are extension of his political and social ambitions, though I give him credit for grieving Juan.
I do love the chemistry between Giulia and Rodrigo in these series (all the cast have chemistry with each other, very lucky casting). Seeing them I understand Rodrigo's kinds taking the passion from their father:). -
Miss.ChatterBox .
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CITAZIONEI liked when Lucrezia said in that scene when Goffredo was sent away: "How can he send him away. He is only a boy. Are we just furniture to him?". I do think that this Rodrigo is not a very..loving father so to speak. his kids are extension of his political and social ambitions, though I give him credit for grieving Juan.
I think he does love them (especially Juan and Lucrezia: Cesare is a little harder to love and easier to fear, for some reasons lol) and he has high expectation from them. He want so forge them a future but the thing is he's hesitant to let THEM create their own life. Of course it was that way in the Renaissance -especially for women- but Cesare learned not to be dependant on his father (i.e. the fact he seeked an army for himself which is not the papal army, differenlty from Juan) and that's what bothers Rodrigo: he loves them but expects certain things from them and when they disobey it becomes harder for him to love them because he can't control them.CITAZIONEI do love the chemistry between Giulia and Rodrigo in these series (all the cast have chemistry with each other, very lucky casting). Seeing them I understand Rodrigo's kinds taking the passion from their father:)
Yeah, I relish each of their scenes because it's a mix of manipulation and genuine love. I think Rodrigo's position plays a big role in Giulia's attraction to him, but at the same time she's honestly jealous of him and wants to be by his side. As for Rodrigo, he's attracted to her because she's the most beautiful (the way she's attracted to him because of his power) but at the same time her presence soothes him or makes his life more lively. He can't give her up, not even in his grief for Juan he could bring himself to let her go.. -
Julia_Katina .
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CITAZIONESo it's basically Juan was easier to manipulate than Cezare for Rodrigo.
I'm not so sure about this, Irina. At the beginning of the series Cesare is quite submissive, at least with Rodrigo... even though, as we all know, he frequently complained about his life with his mother and Alessandro and in fact he was a young man prone to violence, which is not lowered his head easily. Juan was simpler, but as mind. He isn't a good boy: he was proud and, like his brother, he often abandoned himself to excesses and violence too.
Then, continuing with the story, Cesare has been more brave, shrewd and hard to keep on a leash. Juan has not done this type of journey instead.
I do not think that the affection of Rodrigo for their children, and especially to Juan, it can be measured only by what he could manipulate them.CITAZIONEand he only started to pay attention to Lucrezia when she rebelled in her marriage, also not an easy target to manipulate.
This is true. Simply, before, Lucrezia was more invisible. Rodrigo thought that her daughter was just a girl like the others, a little flawed but ultimately obedient. When she started to create problems, inevitably Rodrigo had to give more attention to her. I believe that he loves her, but less than its sons. And less of the power and the concept of family, mostly.
John Doman's Rodrigo, at least in words and actions, it is not very warm.CITAZIONEhe loves them but expects certain things from them and when they disobey it becomes harder for him to love them because he can't control them.
Yes.CITAZIONEI think he does love them (especially Juan and Lucrezia: Cesare is a little harder to love and easier to fear, for some reasons lol) and he has high expectation from them.
I agree with your last phrase. But what about the love for Lucrezia that exceeds that for sons... I'm not sure, or better to say I'm confused. Of course he loves her more than Goffredo, as I have already said. But she's woman and a troublemaker! X°D I belive Rodrigo loves more Juan, but perhaps, because of the nature of Cesare, Lucrezia has a chance to match her brother? Or pass him? Here, I'm so undecided. -____-"CITAZIONEYeah, I relish each of their scenes because it's a mix of manipulation and genuine love. I think Rodrigo's position plays a big role in Giulia's attraction to him, but at the same time she's honestly jealous of him and wants to be by his side. As for Rodrigo, he's attracted to her because she's the most beautiful (the way she's attracted to him because of his power) but at the same time her presence soothes him or makes his life more lively.
So true. ùù I agree with you.. -
Miss.ChatterBox .
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CITAZIONEBut she's woman and a troublemaker! X°D I belive Rodrigo loves more Juan, but perhaps, because of the nature of Cesare, Lucrezia has a chance to match her brother? Or pass him? Here, I'm so undecided. -____-"
I think she's his little girl who can do no wrong in his eyes -at least until she fucks with his plans LOL. But there is a scene in s2 where he tells her about power and being a Borgia -like he's teaching her a lesson. So I think he's torn between wanting her as a pawn and realizing that he won't live forever and she will have to take care of herself and the family when he's gone. Also,SPOILER (clicca per visualizzare)his loves for her changes in strange ways during s2, you will see.. -
Julia_Katina .
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Oh! *_* I want see this second season. -.-" Now!!! . -
butterfly-fly .
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i was not saying that he didn't love them - like any parent he did. I'm sure he woul have been as upset about Cezare or Lucrezia'd demise as with Juan's. They are all his flesh and blood. What I was trying to say thet he was sort of content in his love. He was sending Cazare to Colonna because it was needed to be done, but he wasn't going out of his mind to find another way to resolve situation. See, I think Lucrezia and Vanozza also understood why that was done never the less they asked him to find another way, and Lucrezia was even trying to use her marriage connections. He berries his love for his kids deep down and he doesn't let it overcloud his decisions. That's what I mean saying he is not very loving father.
I know about this spoiler for S2 with Lucrezia and Rodrigo relationships...I need to see too...I mean this family is screwed up, LOL.. -
Miss.ChatterBox .
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CITAZIONEHe berries his love for his kids deep down and he doesn't let it overcloud his decisions. That's what I mean saying he is not very loving father.
I get what you mean. I think he's first of all a player and politics are his chessboard. His children are not really his pawn (too important to sacrifice them) but he moves them around like the Queen, the Bishop and the Knight. Strangely enough, they fit the roles, LOL.CITAZIONEI know about this spoiler for S2 with Lucrezia and Rodrigo relationships...I need to see too...I mean this family is screwed up, LOL.
Big time, LOL. HeSPOILER (clicca per visualizzare)starts to get these graphic fantasies about her and he's both disgusted and appealed from them, LOL.. -
Julia_Katina .
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Awwwwwww! #read the spoiler
I'm so insane, I know. But I regret nothing, lol. Tom, i love you. <3 You dare to bring to pass my fantasies.
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butterfly-fly+1 .
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QUOTEI get what you mean. I think he's first of all a player and politics are his chessboard. His children are not really his pawn (too important to sacrifice them) but he moves them around like the Queen, the Bishop and the Knight. Strangely enough, they fit the roles, LOL.
Agreed!
Ornella, this gif
Gee, well, I don't know how I would feelBut I agree with Ornella - props to Tom Fontana for not being afraid to bring this stuff on screen! That's a bold move!SPOILER (click to view)being a part of the family where every male relative wants to fuck me! No wonder she doesn't wan to deal with them by the end. -
Julia_Katina+1 .
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But I agree with Ornella - props to Tom Fontana for not being afraid to bring this stuff on screen! That's a bold move!
Totally agree with you.
I'm sorry to say, but Neil Jordan did not have the courage to bring a real scandal on his show and even the incest between Cesare e Lucrezia was treated in an almost idealized, apart from the sex between the two. In addition, the average American viewer, apart from the usual exceptions, generally is not prepared to shows really raw. Or maybe yes, but from a physical point of view, more material; the psychological corruption and the mental deviations disturb the good American society more than they do with the Europeans. Despite appearances.
Anyway. I should not express opinions about some of these Rodrigo's ideas until I have seen all of the second series, but I came up with a possible because in the first season, instead, there is no trace of these thoughts: I think it's mainly due to the fact Lucrezia was, in reality, still a child. She had just had her first period at the beginning of the first episode, but mostly she was still infant in the mind. And Rodrigo likes beautiful young women, see Giulia that is barely bigger than Lucrezia, but in fact must be women: Julia was, absolutely, unlike his daughter.. -
Miss.ChatterBox .
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CITAZIONEAnd Rodrigo likes beautiful young women, see Giulia that is barely bigger than Lucrezia, but in fact must be women: Julia was, absolutely, unlike his daughter.
Well, they start at some point in the story when he definitely sees her as a woman because of a certain event u.u. Won't say more. u.u.
![The House of Borgia [all about Renaissance, the Family - Da Vinci's Demons, Reign & more]](https://i.imgur.com/QY4IMuw.png)
The House of Borgia [all about Renaissance, the Family - Da Vinci's Demons, Reign & more] - x Borgia
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»Rodrigo Borgia (John Doman)"We are all one family. Salute!" |
